Friday, September 7, 2007

The Top 10 (For Now) Debut Hip-Hop Albums of All-Time...

First off, I would like to give a big shout out to Big Is. Today, September 7th is his birthday and if you know Is, you know that the brother loves his hip-hop. So I could think of no better day than today to kick off this list.

Lets see if we can move on to something that we can joyously agree on (VERY sarcastic there): Music. Specifically, another Top 10 list, but after doing more research, we may bend the rules and make this a Top 15 list. I enjoy them, or at least, I enjoy the process of hammering out these types of lists, especially now with the new poll feature that this program features. I would like to start out today with the Top Debut Hip-Hop Albums of All-Time. This list is tricky. You may LOVE a particular artist, but their debut albums may not have been that good, like Public Enemy. I'm a huge fan of Chuck D. and Public Enemy, but "Yo! Bum Rush the Show" was not that great. In some instances, like Mobb Deep, the artist in question may not approach creating an album as good as their debut was ever again. Remember, next to this piece will be a poll on the side so please vote on the albums of your choice so we can see where we end up in terms of number of votes. After this is over, I would like to start building towards the Top Hip Hop Albums of All-Time.

The albums below, other than Paid In Full and Illmatic, are in no particular order. They're listed as I thought of them, except for these first two albums. I think there is no doubt that these are the 2 best debut albums of all time. Please don't bring me some noise about Lil' Wayne or Too Short even coming close to the caliber of Full and Matic. Nas and Ra are at the top of their games on these albums. Paid in Full was so dope and so far ahead of its time you could throw this on NOW and it would be the best album out. Fiddy would be squashed like nobody's business.

Speaking of 50 Cent... The guy is mediocre. Middle of the road. His first album, "Get Rich or Die Tryin'", was the most succesful debut hip-hop album of all time. Does that mean he put out one of the best debut albums of all time? In my opinion, no. The Spice Girls outsold anything that John Lee Hooker or Muddy Waters ever sold. Does that mean that their albums were better works of art? Personally I don't think so and if you were to state otherwise I would have to seriously question your opinion in this matter.

Some of the albums I listed will have something written about them if I was moved to do so at the time, or if time allowed. I have a newborn, I don't have as much free time as before.


Eric B. and Rakim - Paid In Full

Nas - Illmatic

Kanye WestThe College Dropout: Great debut album. He stopped producing tracks for other people, stepped behind the mic and hasn't looked back since.

Biggie SmallsReady To Die: Do I really have write anything about this guy?

Wu-Tang - Enter the Wu-Tang: The 36 Chambers – East Coast Hip hop made a return with this album. West coast rap at the time dominated mainstream hip hop. Gangster rap and the melodious, G-Funk, was leading the way back then. The Wu kind of made the rest of the country to pay more attention to East Coast rap again. Their use of "dirty" samples began a new style of production that was more gritty and raw and people in the mainstream took to it inspite of their raw sound.

KRS-OneCriminal Minded: The Professor schooled everybody and was and still is, one of the smartest brothers out there. He's still droppin' science to this day, even if tons of people aren't buying it.

De La Soul3 Feet High and Rising: Unique brothers who really spit tight, tight, rhymes over original hot trakcs. With socially conscious lyrics to boot. I miss the days when it was cool to be smart in hip-hop.

A Tribe Called Quest - People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm:
Dr. Dre – The Chronic : Yes I am including guys who go solo after appearing in a group. This album was so dope, you wondered if Dre had any great music left for other artists.

Cypress HillCypress Hill: This was all you heard going into some parties when this album dropped. Unique sounding MC (A la Tip), dope, gritty production and phat beats makes this album a classic.

Snoop DoggDoggy Style: Is this a classic or what? Its SO mysoginistic, i'm embarrassed to say I loved this album. When I was rocking this cassette on my Walkman, I always turned down the volume on some songs. It was awful. But great. "It ain't no fu-uh-uh-uh-uh-uhn, if my homies can't ha-a-a-a-ave non".

Jungle BrothersStraight out the Jungle: The creators (at least in the mainstream) of hip-house. Much to the joy of all the flexible short guys in the club back in the days. In spite of that, these Native Tongue members' first album was awesome.

Black StarBlack Star: We're still waiting for the damn sequel. But I guess this is better than Ocean's 12.

Mos DefBlack on Both Sides: Even though Mos is basically on this list twice, I couldn't leave this album off this list. Such a great album.

The Roots - Things fall Apart: I didn't want Dre to have a heart attack so I included this album, even though 120 people heard it, but I would be a bit of a hypocrite for going on my rant about sales not being reflective of good an album is.

Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of...: I'm not sure if this qualifies for the list, but again, happy birthday Is. This was an Is special. You guys get to vote on it.

Ice Cube - Amerikka's Most Wanted

Raekwon - Only Built for Cuban Linx

Big Daddy Kane - Long Live the Kane: I was a huge fan of Kane. Still am. Love his flow.

Slick Rick - Great Adventures of Slick Rick: An old skool classic.

Mobb Deep - The Infamous: I don't think they've been this good since.

EPMD - Strictly Business: Hard core beats and tight rhymes made me rue the day these guys split up. I always loved what they dropped on each album.

Dead Prez - Let's Get Free: I almost forgot to include these guys. Dope rhymes, socially conscious verses make them dope. "It's bigger than hip-hop, hip-hop..."

Big Pun - Capital Punishment: People forget how great this guy was. When you put on a Pun song you knew those first 16 bars were going to be some the fiercest, hardcore rhyming around. He put his all into that first verse, not to say that the rest of it he slacked, but he was spittin' fiyah, as the kids like to say.

50 Cent - Get Rich or Die Tryin': I am reluctantly including this album since Is submitted it. It was abundantly clear how mediocre I think the guy is. While Dre is not a GREAT lyricist either, I like his flow better than this guy and I think Dre should get a few extra cool points since he produced most of it himself.

Lil Kim - Hardcore: So far, only this and Lauryn Hill (still dont think she should be on this list) are the only females on this list. I wanted to include Latifah or MC Lyte, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Kim's critically acclaimed debut was also a big selling album.

Capone & Noreaga - The War Report: I'm going to listen to this album this week again. Is thinks this should be on for how hardcore it was and their lyrics. Interesting thing: despite being very hardcore, very few curses.

Outkast - Southernplayalisticadillacfunkymusic: They put real hip-hop on the map in the dirrrty dirrrty.

LL Cool J - Radio: I forgot how good this album. Is reminded me. I went back and looked at the album again and i'm gonna be listening to it some more.

Run DMC - Run DMC
NWA - Straight Outta Compton: Not my style. Har hitting, raw lyrics speaking to the state of things in the 'hood. But I could never get with their flows. My faves from the group were Cube and Ren. Dre definitely grew as an MC since this album first dropped.

Brand Nubian - One For All: Another party album with tight rhymes. Grand Puba was a great MC. I know that this list is East Coast dominated, but even Drew said that Nubian was big in Mississippi.

The Pharcyde - Bizarre Ride II the Pharcyde: Who can forget how trippy their music sounded at times. Great production, an original sound and some creative lyrics made this album dope.

Jay-Z - Reasonable Doubt: Thank you Is. This album was on my original list. Problem with the cutting and pasting (its so technical). Great album. His best. I've been listening to it these last 2 days as research and have been lovin' it.

Now, really think about these albums before you vote. Really think about the lyrics that these MC's spit. The word play and the their flow. If anything, the music and beats should be the last or second to last thing you consider when you are voting. If you feel that there is an album that we should include (i'm talking to you Nat), please submit it and I will include it on the list. Nat is a fellow huge lover of hip-hop and always reminds us that we haven't heard enough from the Left Coast.

Please vote with your head and not your heart. One last thing, please limit your voting to 10 albums only.

119 comments:

Anonymous said...

What happened to Reasonable Doubt? I know this is a slight technical oversight as they were on your original list.

Andre said...

Lou,

Perhaps the reason you don't like The Roots is because you think "Things Fall Apart" is their debut album. That would mean you've missed two of their greatest albums.


"Do You Want More" is The Roots first "major label" release, and definitely should be on this list. It was an original album that truly took risks. Their true debut album, however, was "Organix" which contained some good tracks, but they had yet to find their identity yet.

Luis M. Espinoza said...

Crap. I went to Google and typed in Roots discography. I guess its just as well then since The Roots hadnt found themselves yet during their first release, Organix. You sure do know your Roots. My favorite member is LeVar Burton. He rocks.

Ernesto Malave Jr. said...

For some insights: http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2005/greatest_albums_0505/

Andre said...

I wanted to throw some non-hip hop debuts out there for consumption, debate, ridicule, etc. There IS more to music than hip hop:

Metallica - Kill em All

Iron Maiden - Killers

Nirvana - Bleach

Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream (technically not their debut but it was released first because their actual first album "Gish" had publishing issues or something and ended up coming out second. But 'Dream' kicked 'Gish' in the ass)

Guns and Roses - Appetite for Destruction

K-os - Exit

Jeff Buckley - Grace

Marc Anthony - Otra Nota

Van Halen - Van Halen

Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin

Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?

Red Hot Chili Peppers - Self-titled

Bob Marley - Natty Dread (solo debut without the wailers)

others??

Andre said...

Th words 'insight' and 'MTV' should never be used together in a sentence.

Luis M. Espinoza said...

I was going to do another list for different genres of music Dre. So right now may not be the time for it. And yes, we do know that there is more to music than hip-hop, you always remind us of it. If you like, you could post a new Top 10 or whatever and then we could separate the Top 10's by genre and then have a complete Battle Royale of Top 10 lists.

Ernie, I actually did read that article you posted. I thought that they were right on the money with most of it too. Its because of that list that I went back to listen to Jay-Z's, "Reasonable Doubt". But Dre is right, insight is hard to associate with MTV. Wouldn't K-Os be considered Hip-hop though? I didn't include him becuase I didn't thikn his first album was THAT good. At least, me, personally.

Andre said...

I put K-os out there cause I thought his first album was pretty good. Just a fresh new perspective on the old hip hop genre that we so love to debate.

I put the rest out there because, much like Nat was saying in our conversation during the bbq on sat, hip hop artists rarely make it past one album anyway, so to talk about their debut is kinda hard... it probably would be better to compile a list of the "best" album of the groups/artists career, as short as some of them may be.

I want to do that ultimate top ten list I was telling you about last week, so I'll hook that up as soon as I have a chance.


"I got beef with commercial ass niggas with gold teeth, lampin in a lexus eatin beef..."

Luis M. Espinoza said...

I dont necessarily know if Hip-hop artists, "rarely make it past one album anyway". At least I would like to see the statistics if its that much of a difference compared to other artists. Wasn't there a show on VH-1 called, "One Hit Wonders"? I saw a couple of episodes and I didnt't notice if there were more hip-hop artists on there than other genres. At least I didn't notice. I, personally, don't think that should impact this list though if that statement were true or not. Especially since, if you look at the list, you will see that all the artists listed have more than one album to their credit. Maybe Raekwon? I think he had another album though.

While Marc Anthony didn't release an album before "Otra Nota", he was a freestyle artist before that. He released a couple of 12" singles in 88 I think. If you liked freestyle, it was good. I had the unfortunate experience of going to see him and La India (when she was just known as India) at 1018 back in the day. God awful. Unless you liked freestyle that is. The crazy thing was, India couldn't sing back then. Now she has a crazy nice voice.

Andre said...

I wasn't saying that hip hop artists are the ONLY artists that don't survive past one hit. Of course it happens in othr genres. It just happens to be the nature of hip hop. Its a genre built on singles, not albums. My belief is this happens because of the lack of song writing in hip hop. Not lyrics, but song writing. So you have lyricists that do nothing but write rhymes, or can freestyle for days. But the music is just someone else's song, cut up. Or if you are P-Diddy, someone else's song, or you are Kanye West, someone else's song sped up to sound like the chimunks are singing the hook. I'm not knocking hip hop, that is just how it is. So I tend to think that a "one hit wonder" is more prevalant in hip hop than in another form of music where people are writing songs. In actuallity, with the exception of GREAT lyricists, hip hop artists are usually as good as their producer, or "track". Which is why Souls of Mischief can bang you over the head with "93 til Infinity", not realizing that "infinity" was... their second album (which I had the unfortunate displeasure of buying as soon as it hit the racks).

As for Marc Anthony, I put that album on the list because it was his first Spanish album. Which is really where he built his career. Besides, can you name the freestyle album he came out with? He didn't have an album. He worked with Little Louie Vega on a number of tracks and was featured on some stuff, but never put out an actual freestyle album. Thankfuly he decided to switch to Salsa before he put out a real major release.

I went to see El Gran Combo sometime in the early 90's and La India was singing with them. She has a tremendous voice, but the few times I saw her sing freestyle, AND that particular time with el Gran Combo, what I noticed about her is similar. She wasn't strong on "Dynamics" when it came to her live set. She was screaming, rather than singing. Much like rappers who sacrifice their smooth delivery in their live set and opt to scream and yell inaudably into the mic cause they think that is getting the crowd "hype".

Andre said...

Lou, I just realized you did mention Marc Anthony never released an actual album of freestyle songs.

Luis M. Espinoza said...

Yeah, Marc Anthony's best career choice was to stop singing freestyle and to get rid of the gheri curl and mullet (AKA, "The business party") he had.

Composing music may be part of the reason that some hip-hop artists dont last that long, but then, what would be the reason for other genres' artists demise? I dont know if you can apply that logic to hip-hop since the very nature of the art form is about rhymes and beats. Thats how it started long ago and it, for the most part, remains the same to this day.

I pointed to the artists on the list because they have all had multiple albums. Hip-hop works the same as the other genres in terms of securing future deals. If your first album generates album sales, you get to release more albums because the label thinks it can make more money off the artist. I, believe it or not, do enjoy other artists and genres and I have bought albums of these other genres artists, to only be later disappointed by the fact that the album - which had 10-12 songs on it - only had 2 to 3 songs that were worth a damn. That doesnt only happen in hip-hop. Music - for the most part - is based on singles. They draw you in - along with the video - to buy the album. This hasnt been happening as mush since its also so much easier to only buy singles (thanks to iTunes among other websites or online "stores").

Hip-hop, as a genre, was outselling every other genre combined until recently. Album sales are down in music as a whole in the last couple of years for the reasons I posted above. The Internet is partly to blame over this. I like to think its also partly due to the lack of quality of hip hop in recent years (psst, 50 Cent, Lil'Wayne, or just about anyone else with a "Lil" or "Baby" in front of their name.). I think that this is the reason for these one-hit wonders. I can only hope that this is a big part of the reason. Here is a pretty good article on what i'm talking about:

http://music.guardian.co.uk/urban/story/0,,2160277,00.html

and this:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200707090192.html

Again, this is my opinion and only that.

Most of the guys in the 90's who died out were because of gangsta rap. I heard some of Souls of Mischief other stuff and it just wasnt that good. Also, I think there was soemthing about their deal in particular. They broke up or something like that. I think Nat told me. I don't think its because they didnt compose the music for their rhymes.

Andre said...

I hear you about other genres having singles and then nothing else. those are bad bands... I'm not stating as an absolute. Simply an observation. The point I was trying to make about hip hop is how many times have we said, or heard, "the BEAT is hot". How many singles are using the same beat? once a hot beat comes out(or rather, sampled from some old funk song), first three different rappers will rhyme over it, then they'll remix it and three more rappers will use it, then some R&B dudes will whine over it, until it finally becomes a techno/house/trance/drum&bass track. Its easier for hip hop artists to come out with a bunch of singles, cause they aren't worried about things like song structure, composition, or dynamics. GOOD producers have an ear, or are trained in these things. A rapper doesn't even have to hear the track half the time. They just need to know how long 16 bars are and write their rhymes accordingly. The artists who stand out are those that break the mold. Who aren't afraid to change the formula, or at least tweak it a little.

The internet has skewed any information or conclusions we can make according to record sales. I don't even like to bring that into the discussion because it just isn't indicative of an artist's talent, fan base, longevity, credibility, etc. Hip hop has become the genre of choice because commercial america has taken hip hop culture to the mainstream. For goodness sakes, if I hear Matt Lauer use "bling" or "dis" again in a sentence my head's gonna explode. Part of me is cool with the infiltration, and part of me fumes at the exploitation. But it is what it is. It's like the first time I saw the Red Hot Chilli Peppers doing that Nike commercial years ago. Part of me died when I saw it. It hurt me soul. Here were guys that gave the finger to mainstream america. So many fans were screaming "sellouts!". But seriously... why not. Its exposure, money, more fans, free stuff, national television spots.. I'm not gonna hate them for wanting it all. What artists don't want to be world reknown? Those who shuck the mainstream are usually dead before they are famous, rich or otherwise.

I don't even know where I'm going with this. Damn you Premium Roast!!

By the way, as much as I LOVE the Chilli Peppers, Fishbone was doing the same style of music for just as long without getting recognition from ANYONE. They had to go and cover a Curtis Mayfield song (Freddie's Dead) just to get on MTV. Those dudes had some killer albums and showed a diverse approach to the funk/rock genre, but are never even mentioned along side the likes of the Peppers, Rage, Linkin Park, Incubus and all those other bands that were obviously influenced by Fishbone. Sorry.. was just thinking about that and had to put it out there.

Luis M. Espinoza said...

I hear you about the beat stuff, but that is what hip-hop is. A phat beat, an MC and if you have a good producer - be it someone else or the rapper himself - you have the makings of a good song. If you don't like beats and a guy rhyming over it, then you may not like rap per se. And thats fine if youve grown bored or tired of it, but that is in its essence what rap music is. Theres no melody.

Coffee is good.

Edwin said...

Personally I can't take this debut hip-hop album seriously cause it doesn't have the Chronic on it. Add it and then I'll vote.

Luis M. Espinoza said...

Jesus I stink. I had that originally. See what happens when you rush something while youre at work? I was hoping to have more people argue over what should be on the list and then do a re-vote anyway. This stinks.

Andre said...

I'm still hoping 50 Cent "Dies trying"

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